为什么Questlove和我相信植物肉是未来 | 盖茨播客

My latest podcast is all about learning something new.

What do you do when you can’t solve a problem? I like to talk to smart people who can help me understand the subject better. I call this process “getting unconfused”—and I think it is one of the best ways to learn something new. In my new podcast, I try to get unconfused about some of the things that fascinate me.

我的最新播客专注于探讨学习新事物的过程。

当遇到难题难以解决时，你会怎么办？我喜欢与那些聪明的人交流，借助他们的帮助来更好地理解问题。我将这个过程称之为“解惑”，我认为这是学习新事物最好的途径之一。在我的新播客中，我尝试通过与专业人士的交流来消除自己对一些令我着迷的课题的困惑。

播客音频

Ahmir “Questlove” Thompson is the ultimate multi-hyphenate: He’s a musician, filmmaker, author, entrepreneur, and more. The Grammy and Oscar winner is also a plant-based foods advocate, so when I had some questions about the future of food, I knew I had to sit down with him. We had a blast talking about why he made a meatless Philly cheesesteak, how we make healthy food accessible to more people, Questlove’s insane record collection, how we got our nicknames, and our Wordle strategies.

阿米尔·Questlove·汤普森是一位集大成者：音乐家、电影制作人、作家、企业家等等。这位格莱美奖和奥斯卡奖得主也是植物基食品的倡导者，所以当我对食物的未来有一些疑问时，我知道我必须和他坐下来谈谈。我们聊得很开心，聊了他为什么要做素食费城芝士牛排，聊了我们如何让更多人吃到健康食品，聊了Questlove疯狂的唱片收藏，聊了我们的昵称，聊了我们的Wordle游戏策略。

SHOW TEASER:

QUESTLOVE: Somehow, I just saw the future. And I don’t know, something told me like, plant-based is going to be the future.

节目预告片：

QUESTLOVE：不知怎的，我仿佛看到了未来。仿佛有什么东西告诉我，植物基食品将成为未来。

SHOW OPEN: 

BILL GATES: You know, if you're honest with yourself, as you learn something, you're a little bit confused. You know, confusion is admitting, that you don't know everything you should and trying to get that broad overview. You know, it's all about getting unconfused.

Welcome to Unconfuse Me. I’m Bill Gates.

[MUSIC]

节目开始：

比尔·盖茨：你知道，如果你诚实地面对自己，当你学到一些东西的时候，你会有所困惑。有所困惑就是承认：你不理解那些你应该知道的事物，并试图了解它们的基础概念。这一切都关乎“解惑”。

欢迎来到《给自己解惑》。我是比尔·盖茨。

【音乐】

BILL GATES: My guest today is Ahmir Questlove Thompson. Most of you probably know him as the drummer of The Roots. He’s got six Grammys, one Oscar, done a lot of books. And also, works on food systems, including a meatless cheesesteak. Today we’re going to talk about how he’s bringing plant-based foods to reluctant consumers, and also his deep love for storytelling.

比尔·盖茨：今天我请到的嘉宾是阿米尔·Questlove·汤普森（Ahmir Questlove Thompson）。大多数人可能都知道他是The Roots乐队的鼓手。他获得过六次格莱美奖，一次奥斯卡奖，出过很多书。此外，他还从事食品系统方面的工作，比如研制素食芝士牛排。今天，我们将讨论他是如何向保守的消费者推荐植物基食品的，以及他有多么爱讲故事。

QUESTLOVE: Yes.

QUESTLOVE：的确如此。

BILL GATES: So welcome. 

比尔·盖茨：欢迎。

QUESTLOVE: Thank you for having me.

QUESTLOVE:：谢谢你的邀请。

BILL GATES: I think both of us like the word games..

比尔·盖茨：我觉得我们两个都喜欢拼字游戏。

QUESTLOVE: You’re a Wordle guy?

QUESTLOVE:：你也玩Wordle（译注：一款英文拼字游戏）？

BILL GATES: Yeah, every day.

比尔·盖茨：对，每天都玩。

QUESTLOVE: Do you have a Wordle group chat, or do you just play by yourself?

QUESTLOVE：你有没有加入Wordle的群聊，还是你只是自己玩玩。

BILL GATES: Just me and four other people. Every morning, it’s like, oh somebody’s got a three. Damn.

比尔·盖茨：只是我和其他四个人。每天早上，我们都会像这样：哦，有人得了三分。真是的。

QUESTLOVE: I’m in three different Wordle group chats. (Laughter.)

QUESTLOVE：我加入了三个不同的Wordle群聊。（笑声。）

BILL GATES: Oh, cool. Today’s word, have you done it yet?

比尔·盖茨：酷。你玩今天的Wordle了吗？

QUESTLOVE: I didn’t play, but my group chat is angry. 

QUESTLOVE：我还没玩，我的群聊好友们气坏了。

BILL GATES: It’s hard.

比尔·盖茨：今天的游戏很难。

QUESTLOVE: Usually, I let them go first. They do it first thing in the morning. I do it at the end of the day, usually like at 11 p.m. 

QUESTLOVE：一般情况下，我让他们先玩。他们早上起床第一件事就是玩Wordle。我在一天结束的时候再玩，差不多晚上11点。

BILL GATES: Oh, nice, just in time.

比尔·盖茨：不错，时间刚刚好。

QUESTLOVE: So, based on their reactions, I can tell if something is a double letter. I can tell if it’s super angry, and it’s like their sixth-- fifth or sixth attempt, then I know, like, okay, well it must be a K or a Z or an X. So, I have an advantage to it.

QUESTLOVE：所以，根据他们的反应，我就会知道是不是出现了字母双拼的题。我会知道他们有没有特别怄气，可能他们第六次——第五次或者第六次尝试才通关，然后我就知道，好，可能题里有一个字母K或者Z，或者X。这样一来，我就有了优势。

BILL GATES: I’d say today is one of those days. (Laughter.)

比尔·盖茨：我猜今天就会如此。（笑声。）

QUESTLOVE: It’s good to know you’re a Wordle addict. That’s good.

QUESTLOVE：很高兴知道你也玩Wordle上瘾。真不错。

BILL GATES: What got you into the plant-based food area? 

比尔·盖茨：是什么让你进入植物基食品领域的？

QUESTLOVE: So, you know, for me, food has always been the greatest social adhesive. Once I started doing Fallon, you know, I’ve become friends with Anthony Bourdain, and he was sort of mentoring me in terms of like food being art and that sort of thing. 

QUESTLOVE：你知道，对我来说，食物一直是最好的社交粘合剂。当我开始参与《肥伦今夜秀》的节目后，我就和安东尼·布尔丹成了朋友。他一直在指导我如何把食物当作艺术，如此种种。

So I threw these things called food salons. We decided to go rogue one night and like, hey, let’s shock everybody and just have, like Shake Shack as the meal for tonight. 

我举办了一些聚会，我们称之为“美食沙龙”。有一天晚上，我们决定不走寻常路，就像，嘿，让大家震惊一下，今晚就吃Shake Shack吧。

And it just so happens that my partner, Alexis Rosenzweig, had read this article about a guy named Patrick Brown, who apparently had this new technology, Impossible, where this hamburger cooks well and all this stuff. 

碰巧我的搭档亚历克西斯·罗森茨维格读过一篇关于一个叫帕特里克·布朗的人的文章，他有一项新技术，叫做“Impossible”，能把汉堡做得更好什么的。

And you know, my thoughts back then with like anything vegetarian or vegan, I was like 430 pounds, like I was a junk food – I’m from Philadelphia. You know, I breathe cheesesteaks. So, it just so happens that Patrick happened to be in town. 

你知道，我那时候对素食或纯素食品的没什么想法，我那时候差不多有430磅重，我整个人就像一坨垃圾食品一样——我来自费城，我几乎天天吃芝士牛排。所以，就这样，碰巧那天帕特里克也来了。

BILL GATES: Amazing. 

比尔·盖茨：真有趣。

QUESTLOVE: And so it was like, hey, let’s do a thing, like we’d do a blind taste test and Shake Shack versus this plant-based thing. Like it’s supposed to be a hamburger that tastes like hamburger, but plant based. And I was like, yeah, that should be fun. Like, I just wanted a party trick. 

QUESTLOVE：因此，就像这样，嘿，我们一起做一件事吧，我们蒙上眼“盲尝”Shake Shack和植物基的汉堡，看看能不能分辨出来。它应该是一个吃起来像普通汉堡包的汉堡包，只不过是植物基的。我就想，是啊，应该很有趣，我只是把这当成一个派对上的游戏。

And I did three of the tests, and every time I chose the Impossible Burger. 

我测试了三次，每一次我都选了Impossible汉堡。

And somehow I just saw the future. And I don’t know, something told me like, plant-based is going to be the future. 

不知怎的，我仿佛看到了未来。仿佛有什么东西告诉我，植物基食品将成为未来。

And I’m a guy that was like always rolled my eyes at anyone who like, oh, you shouldn’t eat animal flesh. That was back in late 2011, 2012. I mean, ten-plus years later, I’ve been in a lot of first round investments for Impossible, NotCo, Eat Just, RightRice, Magic Spoon Cereal, Appeal. There’s a lot of them. But I just feel as though that’s the future, and I want to be the person that plants the seed. Yeah. 

我是这样一种人，如果有人告诉我，你不应该吃动物的肉，我肯定会翻白眼。这是2011年、2012年的事。我的意思是，十几年以后，我已经参加了Impossible，NotCo，Eat Just，RightRice，Magic Spoon Cereal，Appeal等很多这样的品牌的首轮投资。我就是觉得，这就是未来的趋势，我想要当那个播下种子的人。就是这样。

BILL GATES: Yeah, one thing that’s cool is that it gets rid of the animal cruelty thing, but it’s also a big climate thing. 

比尔·盖茨：是的，这样做很酷的一点是，它摆脱了虐待动物的问题，同时对气候问题来说也是一件重要的事。

QUESTLOVE: Yes, absolutely.

QUESTLOVE：是的，完全同意。

BILL GATES: I came to it more from that climate angle, and I got to meet Patrick Brown, who’s a very great scientist. And they’re doing well, but a lot of people want him to do-- make it even slightly better. They have a good roadmap, so I’m optimistic. 

比尔·盖茨：我更多地是从气候的角度来考虑的。我认识了帕特里克·布朗，他是一位非常伟大的科学家。他们已经做得很好了，但很多人希望他能做得更好。他们有一个好的规划图，所以我很乐观。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, the thing is, kind of the cool thing about especially with Impossible, is that was back in 2012, 2013, I think, and I was impressed then. But since then, they’ve improved and improved. And the thing is – the thing that I always felt as though there’s a lot of social issues, especially with black people in the inner city, that we have yet to get to. I’m a person that always wanted to know why are the worst foods, the high sugar foods, the fatty foods, why is that so accessible? Why is that so cheap?

QUESTLOVE：是的，事情是这样的，Impossible很酷的地方在于，那是早在2012年、2013年，当时就让我印象深刻。但从那以后，他们还在不断改进。我一直觉得会有很多社会问题，尤其是城市内部黑人境况的问题，我们还没有解决。我一直想知道，为什么最难吃的食物、高糖食物、高脂肪食物如此容易获得？为什么那么便宜？

And one day, Magic Johnson was a guest on The Tonight Show, and I happened to be looking at the production notes. Because I have to play a walk on-song, and I usually craft the walk-on song about whatever they’re there to promote. And I looked, and it was like Magic Johnson’s TGI Fridays.

有一天，“魔术师”约翰逊做客《肥伦今夜秀》，我碰巧看到了拍摄手札。因为我必须在节目中伴奏，我通常会精心制作一首伴奏歌曲，关于他们在节目中要宣传的东西。我一看，好像是关于“魔术师”约翰逊的TGI Fridays餐饮连锁。

And I went down to his room. I’m like, wait, you’re here to promote your Fridays restaurant? And I was kind of ribbing him about it. And he’s like, “No, this is the most important of all my ventures. This is the most important one.” And when he explained it to me, I mean, that was my Doc Brown flux capacitor, like eureka moment. He told me that where he strategically placed these Fridays are in neighborhoods in which you can’t even get a salad within 20 or 30 blocks.

我去了他的房间。我说，等等，你是来宣传你的Fridays餐厅的？我其实在开他的玩笑。他说：“不，这是我所有投资中最重要的。这是最重要的投资。”当他解释给我听时，我的意思是，这就像是布朗博士发明通量电容器的时刻一样，是属于我的“灵光乍现”的时刻。他告诉我，他战略性地把餐馆开在了一些比较贫穷的社区内，这些社区方圆二三十个街区连沙拉都买不到。

Now I’m from West Philadelphia, so we would have to go all the way out to Upper Darby, Pennsylvania, to buy food instead of going to the local neighborhood supermarket. And that’s because there was a variety of fruits and vegetables and fresh things there. And once he said that, I realized like, oh, okay, this also explains my weight and all this, like the fattiest foods in the world were accessible to me. 

我来自西费城，所以我们不得不大老远跑到宾夕法尼亚州的上达比区去买食物，而不是去当地的社区超市。那是因为那里有各种各样的水果、蔬菜和新鲜的东西。他这么一说，我才意识到，哦，好吧，这也解释了我的体重和这一切，因为我可以轻易得到世界上最易胖的食物。

I kind of want to change the narrative because I think people have this impression. First of all, there’s just no education on how it’s made. There’s a lot of misinformation. 

我想改变大众看法，因为我觉得人们会有一些固有印象。首先，人们根本不了解植物基食物是如何制成的。这其中有很多错误的信息。

And then on top of that, I just think that the reason why I invested in the Impossible Cheesesteak, was I wanted to show Philadelphians locally that just because it’s plant based doesn’t mean that it’s boring or bland. And just starting there, people are opening their ideas. 

除此之外，我认为我投资Impossible芝士牛排的原因是，我想让当地的费城人知道，以植物为基础的食物并不意味着乏味或寡淡。就从现在开始，人们开始转变观念。

BILL GATES: I haven’t tried your cheesesteak yet, but –

比尔·盖茨：我还没有尝过你的芝士牛排，不过——

QUESTLOVE: Goldbelly.

QUESTLOVE：大名远扬。

BILL GATES: People like it? 

比尔·盖茨：很受人们欢迎？

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, my biggest fan is Obama, so –

QUESTLOVE：对，我最忠实的拥趸是奥巴马，所以——

BILL GATES: All right. 

比尔·盖茨：好吧。

QUESTLOVE: I mean, I love all types of food, I know that people just generally don’t like a know-it-all, even if it’s to the detriment of their own life and health

QUESTLOVE：我的意思是，我喜欢各种类型的食物，我知道人们一般不喜欢“万事通”类型的人，即使不听他的话会损害他们自己的生活和健康。

But I think there’s a way to just plant seeds. Like the way that I introduced the cheesesteak, I struck a deal with my local team. I’m from Philadelphia. So at Phillies games we had plant based cheesesteak and whatnot. And it was a hit because most of them gave us feedback, like, wow, this really does taste good, like it doesn’t taste like cardboard. So yeah, I definitely foresee a future in which alternative foods can sustain us and help us.

不过，我觉得还是有办法播下种子的。就像我介绍芝士牛排一样，我和当地的团队达成了协议。我来自费城。所以在费城人队的比赛中，我们有植物肉芝士牛排什么的。这很受欢迎，因为大多数人都给了我们反馈，比如，哇，这真的很好吃，吃起来真的不像纸板。所以是的，我绝对可以预见到，在未来，替代食品可以维持我们的生活，帮助我们。

BILL GATES: Well, we need that. Of all the climate areas, the one that people are probably least aware of is all the fertilizer and cows, and that’s a challenge. But when you meet people like Patrick Brown, you go, wow. 

比尔·盖茨：那么，我们需要它。在所有气候领域中，人们最不了解的可能就是化肥和奶牛，这也是一个挑战。但当你遇到像帕特里克·布朗这样的人时，你会惊叹不已。

QUESTLOVE: Pat’s intense.

QUESTLOVE：帕特很认真。

BILL GATES: He’s intense. Yeah. 

比尔·盖茨：他很认真。对。

QUESTLOVE:  And right now, I’ll say that the hardest, you know, it needs a perfect cheese to it. So right now, it’s vegetarian based because we’re using real cheese. But the second that there is a plant-based cheese that tastes good, and we have high standards with how it tastes, so as soon as that happens, then we’re really going to change the game.

QUESTLOVE：现在，我要说的是，最难的事就是，你知道，芝士汉堡需要完美的奶酪。现在，它以素食为主，因为我们用的是真正的奶酪。但一旦有一种植物基的奶酪口感很好，而我们对口感有很高的要求，那么一旦出现这种情况，我们就真的要改变游戏规则了。

BILL GATES: Yeah, I have a few companies that are working on that.  

比尔·盖茨：是的，我有几家公司正在研发了。

I know we have a number of mutual friends, including Nathan Myhrvold. 

我知道我们有很多共同的朋友，包括内森·梅尔沃德。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, Yeah, man.

QUESTLOVE：是的，是的。

BILL GATES: That guy is amazing. 

比尔·盖茨：这个人真的很棒。

QUESTLOVE: Nathan is to me, that was the closest experience I had to like a Willy Wonka, where you’re seeing like, robots that you’re not supposed to know about. And we had, I guess, a 20-course meal. And so like, the world doesn’t know that food science can really be fun and creative and that it’s art. And so, I love Nathan to death. 

QUESTLOVE：内森对我来说，与他交往是最能让我感到仿佛接近了一位“威利·旺卡”（译注：《查理和巧克力工厂》的工厂主人）的时刻。和他在一起，你看到了你原本不应该知道的机器人。我们一起吃过大概有20道菜的大餐。全世界都不知道食品科学可以很有趣、很有创造力，而且是一门艺术。我爱死内森了。

BILL GATES: Yeah. Nathan is the one who taught me that animal fats melt at different temperature than these plant fats. So one of the keys to getting the cheese that’s going to meet your high standards, is to somehow chemically make fats that are really the same as what you’re used to. The tongue feel; that ingredient makes a huge difference. Anyway. So now there’s some people who think they can do that and make it even less expensive. It’s incredible the number of companies.

比尔·盖茨：是啊。是内森教会我动物脂肪的融化温度与植物脂肪不同。因此，要想制作出符合你高标准的奶酪，关键之一就是用化学方法使脂肪与你习惯的口感完全相同。还原舌头的感受，某种成分会产生巨大的差异。总之，因此，现在有些人认为他们可以做到这一点，而且成本更低。这样的公司数量之多，令人难以置信。

QUESTLOVE: And I also just love the interest of it. There’s a school in New York City called the – I don’t know if you ever heard, the Food and Finance School?

QUESTLOVE：我也很喜欢它带来的兴趣。纽约有一所学校叫——我不知道你是否听说过，食品与金融学校（意译）？

BILL GATES: Hmm. 

比尔·盖茨：哦……

QUESTLOVE: The Food and Finance School is a school that’s sort of the equivalent of a performing arts high school, like the Fame school. 

QUESTLOVE：食品与金融学校，相当于一所专门的表演艺术高中。就像Fame School一样。

BILL GATES: Cool. 

比尔·盖茨：酷。

QUESTLOVE: Where you have music, drama, dance, creative writing, learning, production. This school is the culinary equivalent to that, and these kids are way more advanced in their thinking. Like, when you’re younger, you just don’t – there’s no limit, there’s no cynicism, like you’re just constantly at play. 

QUESTLOVE：Fame School有音乐、戏剧、舞蹈、创意写作、学习、制作。而这所学校就相当于烹饪学校，这些孩子的思想更超前。就像，当你年轻的时候，你不会——没有限制，没有愤世嫉俗，就是玩。

So this school pretty much teaches you everything about the food world. So yes, there’s like baking and cooking and pastries, but there’s also like cutlery, how to photograph food. On their rooftop they have an irrigation system. They’re raising fish up there.

因此，这所学校几乎会教你关于美食世界的一切。他们教烘焙、烹饪、糕点，也会教餐具知识、食物摄影。在他们的屋顶上，有一个灌溉系统。他们在上面养鱼。

And so, I started a program, in which for the summer it’s like the food entrepreneurialship program, in which like 20 or 25 of the students for four weeks, they go out to Silicon Valley where like a lot of these future food companies are located, and a lot of these kids might not have had access to plant-based food technology or any of those things. So they’re so advanced in knowing and creating what is needed for sustainability. And, I have absolutely no doubts that in five to 10 years, we’ll even be further down the road with it. So.

我启动了一个项目，在暑假期间开展食品创业计划，其中有20或25名学生将在硅谷呆四周，那里有很多未来的食品公司，而这些孩子中的很多人可能从未接触过植物基食品技术或这些东西。因此，他们非常了解并且懂得如何创造可持续发展所需要的条件。我毫不怀疑，再过五到十年，我们在这方面会走得更远。

BILL GATES: Yeah, it’s great to see science and art and culture kind of coming together.

比尔·盖茨：看到科学、艺术和文化融为一体真是太棒了。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah.

QUESTLOVE：对。

BILL GATES: So.  What’s your guilty pleasure snack food? 

比尔·盖茨：你最喜欢吃但也会让你感到有负罪感的小吃是什么？

QUESTLOVE: (makes strange noise) Okay. My guilty pleasure snack food. I’m a Philadelphian. So, as a Philadelphian, there’s a company called Tasty Cake, and it’s tri-state. And Tasty Cake is kind of like our localized version of, like, what Hostess is, a Twinkie, a Yankee Doodle, like, kind of that sort of part cupcake, part whatever. So, there’s something called the Butterscotch Krimpet, which in its heyday, wow. 

QUESTLOVE：（发出奇怪的声音）好吧。我最爱的但有负罪感的小吃。我是费城人。作为一名费城人，有一家公司叫Tasty Cake，经营范围达三个州。Tasty Cake有点像我们的本地化的，比如说Hostess的那种，Twinkie，Yankee Doodle，就像一部分是纸杯蛋糕，另一部分是什么的那种。还有一种叫奶油蛋糕的东西，在它最流行的那段期间，哇哦。

What’s your guilty pleasure snack food? 

你最喜欢的有负罪感的小吃是什么？

BILL GATES: The one I can’t avoid, so I just make sure it’s not around, is See’s Candies has a peanut brittle that is both salty and sweet, and the mouthfeel is pretty amazing. 

比尔·盖茨：我不能不吃的就是See's Candies的花生糖，它既咸又甜，口感非常棒。

QUESTLOVE: Is it bad for your teeth?

QUESTLOVE：会对牙齿不好吗？

BILL GATES: No, it’s just a lot of sugar.

比尔·盖茨：不会，只是糖很多。

QUESTLOVE: A lot of sugar, okay.

QUESTLOVE：很多糖，好吧。

BILL GATES: A lot of calories, and you don’t fill up much. So, if you have a whole box there, next thing you know, you’re just chomping away.

比尔·盖茨：热量高，吃不饱。所以，如果你有一整盒，接下来，你知道的，就是大快朵颐了。

QUESTLOVE: Right, okay.

QUESTLOVE：对，好吧。

[music transition]

【音乐过渡】

BILL GATES: Another thing that’s kind of almost unusual is you have a gigantic record collection. 

比尔·盖茨：另一件不寻常的事是，你收藏了大量唱片。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, I do, in terms of volume, I have about 200,000 records. 

QUESTLOVE：是的，就数量而言，我有大约20万张唱片。

BILL GATES: Amazing. 

比尔·盖茨：了不起。

QUESTLOVE: But I don’t want people to think that, like, I just went out and individually, like got 200,000 records. I’ll say that in the last – in the last six years, what’s happened is – okay, so the way that the record industry was, say, in the ‘50s, ‘60s, and the ‘70s, there would be something called one-stop-shops, and one-stop-shops are the people that order in bulk every type of record. And then they’ll service those records to restaurants that have jukeboxes, bars, diners that have jukeboxes, local mom and pop record stores. 

QUESTLOVE：但我不希望人们认为，我只是出去单独搞了20万张唱片。我想说的是，在过去的六年里，发生的情况是——好吧，唱片业的发展方式，比如说，在50年代、60年代和70年代，会有一种叫做一站式唱片店的东西，一站式商店就是大量订购各种唱片的人。然后他们会把这些唱片送到有点唱机的餐馆、酒吧、有点唱机的餐厅、当地的母婴唱片店。

And so, what’s happening is that a lot of those one-stop-shop owners, are, you know they’re passing away. And oftentimes, it will be a family, and they had a one-stop-shop, and they’re like, “Well, we have like 30,000 pieces and we don’t know what to do with it. 

现在的情况是——很多一站式商店的店主，你知道，他们都去世了。很多时候，是一个家族在经营一家商店， 他们会想，“好了，我们有三万张唱片，我们不知道该怎么办了。”

BILL GATES: Yeah, I thought I’d gone past vinyl, but then my friend Bono gave me a turntable. And he was very thoughtful; he gave me about 12 records that he thought I’d like. And next thing I knew, I was using it.

比尔·盖茨：是的，我以为我已经不会再听黑胶唱片了，但后来我的朋友波诺送了我一个唱片机。他想得很周到，给了我大约12张他认为我会喜欢的唱片。接下来我就开始用它了。

QUESTLOVE: I heard this. I heard this.

QUESTLOVE：我听说过。我听说过。

BILL GATES: Speaking of vinyl, we’ve got a turntable here. And I asked you if you might bring a record. So, what have you got? 

比尔·盖茨：说到黑胶，我们这里有一个唱片机。我问过你能不能带张唱片来，你带了什么？

QUESTLOVE:Thad Jones and Mel Lewis, this is some of the greatest jazz orchestral work that there is. There’s a really awesome cover of “Get Out My Life, Woman,” which was a common song back then. So I guess I want to play the cover of Get Out My Life Woman.

QUESTLOVE：萨德·琼斯和梅尔·刘易斯，这是最伟大的爵士管弦乐作品之一，其中有一首翻唱自《Get Out My Life, Woman》的歌曲非常棒，这首歌曾经很流行。我想我要演奏《Get Out My Life, Woman》的翻唱。

BILL GATES: Fantastic.

比尔·盖茨：好极了。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah. And it’s a double album. So Jazz great Joe Williams is singing on this version. 

QUESTLOVE：是的，这是一张双唱片专辑。爵士大师乔·威廉姆斯演唱的就是这个版本。

This album, and this is from my personal collection, I lived in England for time, and this was one of the first records I purchased.

这张专辑是我的个人收藏。我在英国住过一段时间，这是我买的第一批唱片之一。

[Music playing.]

【音乐播放中】

QUESTLOVE: I believe this is ‘70. Yes.

QUESTLOVE：我记得这是70年代的。没错。

[Music playing.]

【音乐播放中】

QUESTLOVE: It’s like one of the records from my childhood.

QUESTLOVE：好像是来自我童年时期的唱片之一。

[Music playing.]

【音乐播放中】

BILL GATES: Cool.

比尔·盖茨：酷。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah. So there you go.

QUESTLOVE：对。请欣赏。

BILL GATES: That’s?

比尔·盖茨：那是？

QUESTLOVE: Thad Jones and Mel Lewis, yes.

QUESTLOVE：萨德·琼斯和梅尔·刘易斯，对。

BILL GATES: So that’s Thad Jones?

比尔·盖茨：所以那是萨德·琼斯？

QUESTLOVE: Yes.

QUESTLOVE：对。

BILL GATES: And that’s Mel Lewis?

比尔·盖茨：然后那是梅尔·刘易斯？

QUESTLOVE: Yes.

QUESTLOVE：是的。

[Music playing.]

【音乐播放中】

QUESTLOVE: And Joe Williams, a gentleman that’s been singing like with Duke Ellington since you know, the ‘40s, is singing on this.

QUESTLOVE：乔·威廉姆斯，一位从40年代就和艾灵顿公爵一起唱歌的绅士，演唱的这首歌。

BILL GATES: Yeah, okay, cool.

比尔·盖茨：嗯，好吧，酷。

[Music Fades.]

【音乐淡出】

BILL GATES: Uh, so, I also have a record for you. This is Sly and the Family Stone’s Greatest Hits, I’ll bet you have a lot of copies of this, but this is actually signed by the artist.

比尔·盖茨：我也有张唱片要给你。这张唱片是Sly and the Family Stone的精选集，我敢打赌你肯定有很多张，但这张唱片上有艺术家的签名。

QUESTLOVE: Jesus H. Christ. Wait. (Laughter.) This is what you call prime stunting. Like this is – Jesus Christ.  I – well, right now, actually I’m coming here straight from the set. I’m working on my follow-up to Summer of Soul is the Sly and the Family Stone documentary. Whoa. 

QUESTLOVE：我的老天爷，天啊。等等。（笑声。）这就是所谓的最大的“巧合”。天啊，我现在刚从片场过来，我正在制作《灵魂乐之夏》的续集，也就是Sly and the Family Stone的纪录片。哇哦。

BILL GATES: Well, that’s great. I watched last night Summer of Soul, which was a blast. 

比尔·盖茨：哇，真不错。我昨晚看了《灵魂乐之夏》，非常精彩。

QUESTLOVE: Thank you. There’s no way I can have a real conversation with you right now because I’m like, wow, this is amazing. Thank you.

QUESTLOVE：谢谢你。我现在都没法正常说话了。因为我……哇，这太棒了。谢谢。

BILL GATES: Yeah.

比尔·盖茨：没问题。

QUESTLOVE: I appreciate it.

QUESTLOVE：真的很感谢。

BILL GATES: Yeah, We’ll have to ask them how many they signed like that. Maybe not that many. It’s pretty cool. 

比尔·盖茨：对，我们得问问他们给多少人这样签过名。也许没那么多。这很酷。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah. Wow. That’s – that’s – that’s rare. That’s so rare. 

QUESTLOVE：对。哇。这真是——这真是——太珍贵了。这太珍贵了。

BILL GATES: In your movie, Summer of Soul, it was great when you got those artists, to see them now that they’re a lot older – 

比尔·盖茨：在你的电影里，《灵魂乐之夏》，你能请到那些艺术家真的太棒了，现在看着他们变老了一点——

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, to see them watch themselves.

QUESTLOVE：是的，让他们看看曾经的自己。

BILL GATES: They were. 

比尔·盖茨：曾经的他们。

QUESTLOVE: My producer Joseph says that that’s the best part of the movie, like the Harry Met Sally interstitial of them watching themselves. 

QUESTLOVE：我的制片人约瑟夫说，这是电影最精彩的部分，就像《当哈利遇见莎莉》的闪回片段，是他们在看他们自己。

You got to understand that just randomly, these two strangers came to me with 40 hours’ worth of footage, and they were like, “We know you love music, Questlove. Here, take this and direct it.” 

你要知道，很突然的，这两个陌生人带着40个小时的素材来找我，他们说，“我们知道你热爱音乐，Questlove。给你，拿去导演吧。”

And the way that human nature is, I think we’re so cynical and we’re so distrusting, it was almost like, okay, why are you guys coming to me? Like, did Spike Lee or Ava DuVernay say no? Like, am I the last on your list? Like, is the audio bad? Like, there has to be a reason why you can’t find a director to do this. 

人类的天性就是这样，我觉得我们太愤世嫉俗，太不信任别人了。就好像是，你们为什么来找我？是斯派克·李或艾娃·杜瓦内拒绝了吗？我是你们名单上的最后一个吗？音频不好吗？你们找不到导演肯定是有原因的。

It took me like maybe six or seven months to finally come to grips that, okay, this is your new mission. But for me, the one thing I was worried about was I knew that people of age of the Harlem Cultural Festival, anyone over 45 and up, would instantly gravitate to it, but how was I going to attract someone younger? 

我花了大概六七个月的时间才终于明白，好吧，这是给我的新任务。但对我来说，我担心的一件事是，我知道哈莱姆文化节的适龄观众——45岁以上的人，都会立刻被这部片子吸引过来，但我怎么才能吸引到更年轻的人？

And I didn’t want to – you know, it would have been easy for me to, like, call up Drake. Like Drake’s uncle is Larry Graham. 

我不想——你知道，对我来说，我很容易就能找到Drake。Drake的叔叔是拉里·格雷厄姆。

BILL GATES: Oh, you’re kidding? I didn’t know that.

比尔・盖茨：哦，真的假的？我之前不知道。

QUESTLOVE: The inventor of funk. Right. Drake’s name is Aubrey Graham. And if people follow Drake on social media, then you know that Drake’s father is just as famous as Drake is. But Drake’s father’s brother is Funkmaster Larry Graham. So I mean, that’s the type of grasping for straws that I was trying to do. Like, maybe I can get Drake to talk about his uncle or something like that. 

QUESTLOVE：放克音乐的发明者。对。Drake名叫奥布里·格雷厄姆（Aubrey Graham）。如果大家在社交媒体上关注Drake，就会知道Drake的父亲和Drake一样出名，但Drake父亲的哥哥是放克大师拉里·格雷厄姆。所以我是说，这就是我为了“自救”试图做的事。比如，也许我能让Drake说服他叔叔什么的。

But what I discovered was that the commonality between millennials and Gen Z with what was happening in the Harlem Cultural Festival, like this 50-year gap, was we were starting to see a parallel movement of like the political uproar and the social uproar and the tension of the time that started the Harlem Cultural Festival, which was the killing of Dr. King and Bobby Kennedy, and we lost our leaders, and what’s happening in the Nixon administration coming in and a lot of programs getting cut. And we were going through the same thing with unarmed killings and protest and not knowing if there’s going to be – if we’re going to live, or if we’re safe. And so, kind of that was what bonded the time periods together, and that’s – I think it’s a way better story than what I thought it was going to be. 

但我发现，千禧一代和Z世代与哈莱姆文化节上发生的事情之间的共性——也就是这50年的差距——是我们开始看到一个平行的运动，就像政治骚动和社会骚动，以及哈莱姆文化节开始时的紧张局势，那时候马丁·路德·金博士和罗伯特·弗朗西斯·“博比”·肯尼迪被杀，我们失去了我们的领导人，尼克松政府上台后发生了什么，很多项目被削减。我们也经历了同样的事情，手无寸铁的人被杀，抗议活动不断，我们不知道自己是否还能活着，或者是否安全。因此，这也是把这两个时期联系在一起的原因，我觉得这个故事比我想象的要好得多。

BILL GATES: No, it ended up being phenomenal. 

比尔·盖茨：这个故事的结局是现象级的。

QUESTLOVE: Thank you. 

QUESTLOVE：谢谢你这么说。

BILL GATES: It’s amazing how much of the music I knew because that’s the music of when I grew up. 

比尔·盖茨：我对这些音乐非常了解，因为那是我成长过程中的音乐。

QUESTLOVE: You know what’s weird? That was probably the main battle between me and some of the producers, the exec producers, because the thing is that in my mind, I wanted goosebump performances. 

QUESTLOVE：你知道奇怪的是什么吗？这可能是我和一些制片人、执行制片人之间的主要争论点，在我看来，我想要的是让人起鸡皮疙瘩的表演。

I’ll give you example: Stevie Wonder. During Stevie Wonder’s 40-minute performance, he’s doing his mega-hits. I mean, he had, still had like Yester-Me, Yester-You, Yesterday, I Was Made to Love Her, Ma Cherie Amour. He had the hits. But it was like, the one song in which I got goosebumps watching him perform was also the one song that showed you what Stevie Wonder was about to do in the future. Like, we got a glimpse of what ‘70s to ‘90s Stevie Wonder was about to do.

我给你举个例子：史提夫·汪达。史提夫·汪达演出的40分钟，他演唱了他的经典歌曲。我的意思是，他有《Yester-Me》、《Yester-You》、《Yesterday》、《I Was Made to Love Her》和《Ma Cherie Amour》。他有很多热门歌曲。但是只有一首歌，让我在看他表演时会起鸡皮疙瘩，那就是向你展示史提夫·汪达的未来的那首歌，我们看到了70年代到90年代的史提夫·汪达的未来。

And they were like, well, no one knows the song, Shoo-Be-Doo-Dah-Day. So you want to make this a seven-minute performance and start with a drum solo at the beginning. But for me it was like, but it’s an amazing performance, and that’s what we have to go with, not the hits. Let’s go with the amazing performance. And so, I’m glad that we won that battle. 

他们就像是，好吧，没人知道这首歌，《Shoo-Be-Doo-Dah-Day》。所以你想把这首歌编成七分钟的表演，一开始就来一段鼓声独奏。对我来说，这就像，这是一场精彩的演出，这才是我们要做的，而不是主打歌。让我们来欣赏精彩的表演。我很高兴我们赢得了这场战斗。

BILL GATES: Yeah, a lot of gospel. 

比尔·盖茨：对，很多福音歌曲。

QUESTLOVE: Yes.

QUESTLOVE：是的。

BILL GATES: It’s great stuff. 

比尔·盖茨：很棒的表演。

QUESTLOVE: Yes.

QUESTLOVE：是的。

BILL GATES: There’s this song which I always thought was When Jesus Walks. It turns out it’s When Jesus Washes that – and of course, now it makes more sense, because it’s really from the Bible. I never knew what were they talking about. 

比尔·盖茨：有一首歌，我一直以为是叫做《当耶稣行走时》。原来是《当耶稣受洗时》——当然，现在听起来更有意义了，因为它确实出自《圣经》。我从来不知道他们在说什么。

QUESTLOVE: What it was, right.

QUESTLOVE：的确如此，对。

BILL GATES: I mean, it’s baptizing people there.

比尔·盖茨：我的意思是，那是在给人们洗礼。

Well, it’s amazing the number things you get up to. You’ve got books. You’ve got this new movie. You’re on TV almost every night. 

比尔·盖茨：你能做的事情真多。你出了书，你有新电影要拍，你几乎每晚都上电视。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah.

QUESTLOVE：对。

BILL GATES: That’s a heck of a schedule. 

比尔・盖茨：有很多行程要跑吧。

QUESTLOVE: Well, okay, so my father was an oldies doo-wop legend back in the ‘50s. 

QUESTLOVE：那么，是啊，我父亲是50年代的老歌传奇人物。

And what makes my situation unique is that I’m also the last generation raised by parents that didn’t trust or believe in babysitters. So, you had to go to work. You had to work with your parents. 

我的情况很特殊，我也是最后一代被父母养大的人，他们不相信也不信任保姆。所以，你必须去工作，你必须和父母一起工作。

By seven, they’re teach me how to iron, and steam, and clean outfits, and go to the cleaners and that sort of thing. By the time I was nine, it was very normal for a 9 or 10 year old to go to a nightclub and ask for a ladder, give me a razor blade so I can cut these light gels, and switch out light gels and everything. 

七岁时，他们教我如何熨烫和洗涤衣物、去洗衣店之类的事情。我九岁的时候，那个年代一个九岁或十岁的孩子去夜总会要梯子，递剃须刀片，切灯胶，换灯胶什么的，已经很习以为常了。

And when I was 10, I was operating the system inside nightclubs. It was just normal for a 10 year old to operate a smoke machine, and the lights and the spotlight.

我10岁的时候，就在夜总会里操作系统了。对一个10岁的孩子来说，操作烟雾机、灯光和聚光灯是再正常不过的事了。

And then one day, my dad’s drummer got in a motorcycle accident. And my dad was just like, “Well, okay, you know the show. So, you’re the new leader.” And my first gig, that gig was at Radio City Music Hall. 

有一天，我爸爸的鼓手骑摩托车出了车祸。我爸就说，“好吧，你知道怎么表演。你现在是新的队长了。”我的第一场演出，是在无线电城音乐厅进行的。

BILL GATES: Wow.

比尔·盖茨：哇塞。

QUESTLOVE: Weird enough, right?

QUESTLOVE：挺怪的，对吧？

BILL GATES: Nice place to start.

比尔·盖茨：不错的起点。

QUESTLOVE: And my dad felt like it was a jackpot moment because he doesn’t have to pay his guy $700 a week. (Laughter.) For me, it’s like, I was the richest 11 year old in existence. So, give Ahmir like 200 bucks. He’ll buy a bike, he’ll be happy. And I became his bandleader, that was the modus operandi. And whatever job was available, you did. And I think that that’s what I inherited from my family.

QUESTLOVE：我爸爸觉得这是走大运的时刻，因为他不用每周付给他的儿子700美元。（笑声。）对我来说，这就像，我是世上最富有的11岁孩子。就像，给阿米尔200美元。他会买辆自行车，他会很开心。然后我就成了我爸的乐队队长。这就是我的工作方式，有什么工作就做什么。我想这就是我从家里继承的东西。

By the time I got to Fallon, I was teaching at NYU. I was starting the Questlove’s Food thing. I was writing books. I had my podcast. I was deejaying at all hours of the night. There were still The Roots, literally on The Tonight Show. I invested in a hoodie store. And so, I thought the more jobs you had, that defines your value. 

我参加《肥伦今夜秀》的时候，已经在纽约大学教书了。我开始做“Questlove的食物”课题的工作。我在写书。我有我的播客。我一整个晚上都做DJ，待在The Roots乐队，就在《肥伦今夜秀》的舞台上做。我还投资了一家帽衫店。所以，我觉得工作越多，就越有价值。

And then once everything was taken away in the pandemic, and we had nothing and silence, I kind of realized that for health reasons, resting, silence, meditation, that’s just as important. I’m just trying to get to a place where I’m enjoying boring stuff, like naps and nothing, you know, the guy that used to always work. But I’m still writing books and directing.

后来，新冠疫情夺走了一切，我们一无所有，只有沉默，我才意识到，为了健康，休息、沉默和冥想同样重要。我只是想让自己喜欢上无聊的事情，比如打盹，什么都不做，你知道，我以前总是在工作。但我现在还在写书，还在做导演。

BILL GATES: (Laughter.) Seven jobs, yeah. 

比尔·盖茨：（笑声。）七份工作，是的。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, yeah.

QUESTLOVE：对，对。

BILL GATES: No, it’s nice. The pandemic did get us to step back a little bit. 

比尔·盖茨：不，这很好。疫情真的让我们退后了一点点。

QUESTLOVE: I figured the path to sanity, for me, was I somehow just went back to being an eight year old, started drawing and sketching, started watching cartoons, started things that I wouldn’t dare do in my busy, too-busy-to-have-fun time. So, what did you do?

QUESTLOVE：疫情期间，我找到了“理智之路”，对我而言，不知怎的，我重新做回一个八岁的小孩，我开始画画，开始看动画片，开始做那些我在繁忙的、太忙而没有乐趣的时光里不敢做的事情。你都做了些什么？

BILL GATES: Well, it was a very unusual time for me because the Gates Foundation has a lot of experts on vaccines and infectious disease. In fact, most infectious disease is in Africa and poor countries, and rich countries are very lucky. There isn’t that much. I mean, there’s some TB, there’s some HIV, but not a lot. 

比尔·盖茨：嗯，疫情对我来说是一个不同寻常的时期，因为盖茨基金会有很多疫苗和传染病方面的专家。事实上，大多数传染病都发生在非洲和贫穷国家，富裕国家非常幸运。没有那么多。我的意思是，也有一些肺结核、艾滋病毒，但不是很多。

And one of our concerns was that in the rich world, you have all this oxygen. And even though those systems are overloaded, in poor countries, you have way, way less. And so, we were trying to say, okay, how quick can we get a vaccine? How quick can we get an antibody? 

我们担心的一个问题是，在富裕国家，医疗设备充足。诚然这些医疗系统已经超负荷运转，但在贫穷国家，物资却少得可怜。因此，我们想说，好吧，我们能多快得到疫苗？多快能得到抗体？

Now, the fact that we were involved and writing checks, we wrote $2 billion of checks, it kind of, in a way, you suspend your emotional reaction, because you’re at least, okay, I’m a fireman. Let’s go in here and do all of that. And it was only like a year in when we finally got the vaccine, to step back and say, wow, that was crazy. I mean – 

现在，事实上，我们参与其中并陆续开出支票，我们开出了20亿美元的支票，在某种程度上，你暂停了你的情绪反应，你至少，好吧，好歹我是一名“救火队员”。让我们在这里做这一切。直到一年后，我们终于拿到了疫苗，回过头来说，哇，太疯狂了。我是说——

QUESTLOVE: So, you immediately felt the pressure and the weight of the world on your shoulders, like I have to use my resources to save the world.

QUESTLOVE：所以，你立刻感受到了肩上的压力和世界的重担，就像我必须用我的资源来拯救世界一样。

BILL GATES: And we can help with this, yeah, because it’s our area. And in 2015, I actually gave a speech where I said, hey, everybody ought to be concerned about this. And sadly, we didn’t get ready for – 

比尔·盖茨：因为这就是我们可以有所建树的领域。2015年，我曾发表过一次演讲，我说，嘿，每个人都应该关注这个问题。遗憾的是，我们没有做好准备——

QUESTLOVE: Mathletes versus athletes, mathletes versus athletes.

QUESTLOVE：数学家对运动员，数学家对运动员。

BILL GATES: And then, so when it when it does come up, and then there was all this insanity about misinformation that maybe I was benefiting from it or maybe Fauci was making money off of vaccines, things that were so the opposite, that even today, I kind of think, hey, is that a joke? But then you run into people who actually believe these things. 

比尔·盖茨：然后，当它出现的时候，就会有人疯狂地传播错误信息，说我从中受益，或者说福奇从疫苗中牟利——根本不是这么回事，甚至到了今天，我都觉得，嘿，这是在开玩笑吗？但后来你遇到的人却真的相信这些事情。

So, that was a crazy time. And even now as we realize, okay, the kids who didn’t get their schooling or some level of depression that is still higher.

所以，那是一段疯狂的时期。即使是现在，当我们意识到，好吧，那些没有接受学校教育的孩子们，或许仍存在很重的抑郁症状。

QUESTLOVE: Resonated, yeah.

QUESTLOVE：同感，没错。

BILL GATES: For me, personally, and maybe a little bit like you, it was such so jarring that it did get me to think about my life and what I value, friendships and things. So, I can’t tell you that it was all negative. It was scary.

比尔·盖茨：对我个人来说，也许和你有点像，这太震撼了，它确实让我思考我的生活和我所珍视的东西，友谊和其他东西。所以，我不能说疫情都是负面的。但它的确很可怕。

QUESTLOVE: But just to keep you sane, like, would you go to video games or, like, just for a moment of sanity? How did you – 

QUESTLOVE：为了让你保持理智，你会去玩电子游戏吗？你是怎么——

BILL GATES: I got to do a lot of reading. And one nice thing was because I had no meetings I had to go to, I started exercising, particularly playing tennis a lot more. And so, it really knocked me out of my normal pattern. And there are some very positive aspects of it. And now when we’re going back to normal, I’m sure you’re like this. It’s like, okay, everybody wants you to resume all the things we were doing before, and you have to kind of force yourself to say – 

比尔·盖茨：我读了很多书。还有一件好事，因为我不用去开会了，我开始锻炼身体，尤其是打网球打得更多了。所以，这真的让我打破了我的常规生活节奏。带来了很多积极的影响。现在，当我们恢复正常生活时，我相信你也会这样。每个人都希望你恢复之前的状态，你不得不强迫自己说——

QUESTLOVE: Don’t do that.

QUESTLOVE：别那么做。

BILL GATES: Wait a minute, there’s some of these things that they weren’t bad, but now, I’m living a somewhat different set of priorities. And I have to add it all up. (Laughter.) You can’t do all the stuff that you learned to like during the pandemic, and then all that stuff you did beforehand.

比尔·盖茨：等一下，有些事情它们并不糟糕，但现在，我生活的优先顺序有些不同了。我必须把这些都加起来看。（笑声。）你不能做所有你在疫情期间学会喜欢的事情，也不能做所有你之前做过的事情。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah, I, too, thought like, okay, well, let me go back. But then, no, I still… I actually morphed into the person I used to laugh at. So, I don’t think I was big on meditation or gratitude or yoga or stretching or morning walks or my health, or any of those things. And that, to me, that was the paradigm shift I needed. It’s almost like I needed the pandemic to sort of morph into who I am now. 

QUESTLOVE：是啊，我也想过，好吧，让我回到过去。但后来，不，我还是……实际上，我已经变成了我以前会嘲笑的那种人。我不认为我非常喜欢冥想，或是心存感恩，或是瑜伽，或是拉伸，或是晨练，或是我的健康，或任何这些东西。对我来说，这就是我需要的心态上的转变。好像是我需要疫情，才能蜕变成现在的我。

So, wow, thanks for sharing that with me.

所以，哇，谢谢你和我分享这些。

[music transition]

【音乐过渡】

BILL GATES: So what name does your family call you?

比尔·盖茨：你家人叫你什么名字。

QUESTLOVE: I’ve always been Ahmir. There was a period where they would call me by my middle name, Kahlid, like, playfully. 

QUESTLOVE：一直都叫我阿米尔。有一段时间他们会叫我的中间名，卡利德，叫着玩。

BILL GATES: Ah.

比尔·盖茨：啊。

QUESTLOVE: But no, I’ve always been Ahmir, especially when I forget to take the garbage out or do the dishes, whatever. So, it’s more like Ahmir with 12 exclamation points at the end. 

QUESTLOVE：他们一直都叫我阿米尔，尤其是当我忘了倒垃圾或者洗碗之类的。所以，更像是阿米尔后面跟着12个感叹号。

So, what name does your family call you? 

所以，你的家人叫你什么？

BILL GATES: Well, my dad was also Bill, and he was quite tall, so people call him Bill or Big Bill. So, I’m the third. And so, in my family, the nickname is Trey. Everybody calls me Trey, which then, when people from outside the family are around, people are calling me that – 

比尔·盖茨：我爸爸也叫比尔，他个子很高，所以人们叫他比尔或大比尔。所以，我是第三个比尔。在我们家，我的小名是特莱。大家都叫我特莱，当有外人在的时候，大家也都这么叫我。

QUESTLOVE: Your name is Trey?

QUESTLOVE：你叫特莱？

BILL GATES: Yeah, that’s my name.

比尔·盖茨：是的，这就是我的名字。

QUESTLOVE: Dawg, that’s a hood name. (Laughter.)

QUESTLOVE：哇，是个酷名字。（笑声。）

BILL GATES: (Laughter.) Is it? 

比尔·盖茨：（笑声。）是吗？

QUESTLOVE: I wasn’t expecting that one. All right. Yeah, I’ve got a cousin named Trey.

QUESTLOVE：我完全没想到。好吧，我有个表亲也叫特莱。

BILL GATES: Do they give you a hard time about the name Questlove? 

比尔·盖茨：他们会因为Questlove这个名字而为难你吗？

QUESTLOVE: No, but it’s weird now because, there’s this dual life thing. Everybody in hip hop does the government name thing and then their moniker. I didn’t want to be Questlove. I didn’t want a title. 

QUESTLOVE：没有，但现在很奇怪，因为有这种双重生活的事情。嘻哈界的每个人都有自己的官方名称和自己的艺名。我本来不想做Questlove。我不想有头衔。

BILL GATES: Oh, okay.

比尔·盖茨：哦，好吧。

QUESTLOVE: Back in high school when Tariq was naming us, I decided that I wanted to be a question mark. (makes question mark noise) And the thing was when we started doing the press rounds, a lot of the European press just thought my name is Mark. “So, Mark, da-da-da-da.” I was like, “Well, why are you calling me Mark?” And they’re like, “Question Mark?” And I was like, “Oh, no, no.” 

QUESTLOVE：高中时，塔里克问我们取名字的时候，我就决定要取“问号”。（发出问号的声音。）问题是，当我们开始在媒体上宣传时，很多欧洲媒体都以为我叫马克。“那么，马克，哒哒哒。”我就说，“你们为什么叫我马克？”他们就说，“问——号？”（译注：英语语境中，“马克”和“标点符号”有相似念法）我说，“哦，不，不。”

BILL GATES: (Laughter.) “This is not going to work.”

比尔·盖茨：（笑声。）“这行不通的。”

And so, by our third album, Illadelph Halflife, I decided that I’m going to go with an old school rendition of that name. So, if you’re old school, you’re either going to be Rock, Ski or Love, 

所以到了我们的第三张专辑《Illadelph Halflife》，我决定用老派的方式来演绎这个名字。如果你是老派乐队，你要么叫摇滚，要么叫滑雪，要么叫爱情。

BILL GATES: Yeah, sure.

比尔·盖茨：好吧，没错。

QUESTLOVE: I mean, you’re a power broker, so you should be Trey-Rock. That’s your name. (Laughter.) I’ll be Questlove and you’re Trey-Rock. (Laughter.) You know I’m going to call you that till the day you die. (Laughter.) 

QUESTLOVE：我是说，所以你应该叫特莱·摇滚。这就是你的名字。（笑声。）我叫Questlove，你叫特莱·摇滚。（笑声。）你知道，我会一直这么叫你，直到你死的那天。（笑声。）

BILL GATES: All right. 

比尔·盖茨：好吧。

QUESTLOVE: Yeah. 

QUESTLOVE：嗯。

BILL GATES: Well, thank you. It was great talking to you today and a lot of fun. 

比尔·盖茨：那么，谢谢你。今天和你交谈很高兴，也很有趣。

QUESTLOVE: I enjoyed it. Thank you. And thank you for this. 

QUESTLOVE：我很享受我们的谈话。谢谢你。谢谢你给我这张专辑。

BILL GATES: Yeah.

比尔·盖茨：是啊。

QUESTLOVE: I got to frame this. It’s amazing.

QUESTLOVE：我必须裱起来。这太棒了。

[MUSIC]

【音乐】

BILL GATES: Unconfuse me is a production of the Gates Notes.  Special thanks to my guest today, Ahmir Questlove Thopmson. 

比尔·盖茨：《给自己解惑》由盖茨笔记出品。特别感谢我今天的嘉宾，阿米尔·Questlove·汤普森。

[MUSIC FADES]

【音乐淡出】

SHOW TAG: 

QUESTLOVE: Just like crates and crates and crates and crates of records, I’m up to 200,000, but it’s also like I have 300 copies of, like, Culture Club’s “Do You Really Want to Hurt Me” on 45, that I don’t need, so?

[Bill laughs]

节目花絮：

QUESTLOVE：一箱一箱又一箱的唱片，我已经有20万张了，但我还有大概300张Culture Club的《Do You Really Want to Hurt Me》，45开本，但我不需要，所以呢？

【比尔笑声】